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VDS's future, crossplatform-compatibility and legal question
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cnodnarb
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Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 700
Location: Evansville, IN

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Skit!

At this point I am of the opinion that your work is the most viable option for the future continuation of VDS syntax use; having said that, it would not be the same product at all anymore.

The feasibility of use stage would be the most dramatic; for the same reason I don't use javascript in certain projects would be my same cause to use something other than the interpreter. I would vie for KBasic, or Monodevelop for desktop apps and would use the interpreter for web projects, but being adept in Javascript I would probably mix it into the solution as well. So it would be a mix of VDS interpreted, javascript, CSS3 and HTML5 to come up with an outputted project that wouldn't remotely resemble a classic VDS executable.

Coming up with a business case for such an outputted project would be next to impossible.
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Skit3000
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Joined: 11 May 2002
Posts: 2166
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been thinking some more on how VDS could stay into existance. To be using it as a web language, it could be (the first?!) language that is using the same code for the browser and the server at the same time.

Normally, you always need to know a combination of HTML/JS/Silverlight/Flash/etc with PHP/ASP/Perl/etc since none of them really works both on the client and the server.

With VDS, it could be set up to run VDS code in the browser, until it tries to access resources for which it needs the server(accessing a file, query a database, pull something from a remote location, chat with other users, run an external program on the server, etc). Whenever the script tries to run a command or function that requires to be executed on the server, this should be in a subroutine which is in the same script but only runs on the server and returns the value to the web browser.

Consider this example:
Code:
web create,
web split,left|*,content|500,right|*
web add,content,header
web add,content,button,Button1

:Evloop
wait event
goto @event()

:Button1click
web item,header,background,red
web item,header,image,blabla.jpg
web item,header,text,@openfilefromdesktop(c:\text.txt)
goto Evloop

:openfilefromdesktop
# This is a private function hidden from the web browser where you can do
# error checking, etc before loading the actual file and return it to the browser
if @equal(@substr(%1, 1, 1), D)
  # Not allowed to pull files from D:-drive
else
  # pull file and return the data to the browser
  exit @file(%1)
end


Don't botter about the "web" commands, these could be used instead of the "dialog" commands but then made for the web in such a way that the page will always display right. Basically all you normally do with HTML is creating DIVs and SPANs to place your content in, and all they really do is split the previous container element into two or more pieces.

The interesting part is in the Button1click part where it calls function @openfilefromdesktop. This means it would open routine :openfilefromdesktop in which a operation on an external resource (@file) takes place. Because there is an operation on an external resource, this part of the code will completely be executed on the server and the exit value will be returned to the client. This will also hide the :openfilefromdesktop routine completely from the web browser, so for the client there is just a @openfilefromdesktop function which magically pulls some data from the server.

It is just a first thought of how such a thing could work. It may have potential like this because people would not have to learn multiple programming languages but just one, while it can still enforce security and prevent strangers from doing things they are not supposed to do.

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LiquidCode
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Joined: 05 Dec 2000
Posts: 1739
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a bad idea. Only problem is that VDS still needs to be run on a Windows server for that to work.
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Chris
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Skit3000
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not necessarily, it could be cross platform as long as someone would create a 'runtime' application that can interpreted the code. There is a project called NodeJS which already runs on a lot of platforms and on which this could be build ontop.
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Voor Nederlandse beginners met VDS: bekijk ook eens deze tutorial!
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LiquidCode
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, cool. Didn't know that.
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marty
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Joined: 10 May 2001
Posts: 789

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys and happy new year!

I've been using VDS since v4, created lots of personal projects, and also for my current and past jobs. I even created many DLLs for VDS (for myself and freeware ones) in Delphi.

Recently I had to make a new personal project which needed an ActiveX component, so I started making a VDS DLL (wrapper for the ActiveX), but realisez after a couple days that VDS would give out some errors now and then. So I took a big step and started to look for a change. Looked at Delphi, yes.. ok was going OK, but man it's expensive. So I gave a try to VB.NET Express... one word WOW!

The ramp up was not so difficult, there is TONS of article and examples on the net. TONS of external components... The Form designer works like a charm, things that I was limited with VDS is now available to me! (Custom, progressbars, scope, listview, smtp with SSL, so much more...)

I created my app in about the same time that it would taken me with VDS. I found my answers on the net when I got stuck...

VB.NET express is FREE for personal and commercial projects! And it is upgraded for time to time... So why should I stay with VDS now? Absolutly no reason.. honestly.

The only drawback (less today with newer windows OS) is the redistrution of the .NET librairies. For the 2.0 (old version) its about 30 megs, but bigger with 3.5 ... But hey, most people are on broadband today. Smile So VDS is really dead.. and not following the game anymore. But I still come buy here at the forums now and then to meet old friends Smile

That was my 2 cents...
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Garrett
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Joined: 04 Oct 2001
Posts: 2149
Location: A House

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marty, if you find the need to develop for Android take a look at Basic4Android @ http://www.basic4ppc.com It's very similar to VB in syntax so you would have no problem jumping right in, maybe even port some of your work over with little effort. It's cost is similar to VDS, so not too expensive. The documentation is a bit of mess, but it's all online with a search feature and they have a very active forum community.

I just started using it a few weeks back and I'm already about 1/3rd of the way through my first project. Having some experience with Basic helps as you can take a stab at what the syntax is that you need and usually get it right without having to search their online docs or use the forum.

One of the biggest features I find the most useful is the ability to connect from the IDE in Windows directly to an Android device for testing my code.

B4A has given me inspiration to program again, just like VDS did way back in the day.

Anyway, Android programming, check out Basic4Android @ http://www.basic4ppc.com

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PGWARE
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Posts: 1548

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marty,

Take a look at C# too, there is an express version for it as well; also free. C# is very similar to Delphi, the main developer who created Delphi also was one of the founders of C# when he came over to Microsoft.

Obviously it uses the same shared .net librarys too.

I always saw VDS as a good beginning tool to learn from, then move on to other languages. Really if you spend a few hours over 2-3 weeks you can easily pickup just about any language pretty quickly.
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marty
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Posts: 789

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PG: Thank for the C# suggestion, I did look at it before VB, well honestly like you said I could probably pick up any language easily after those years of experience in the software world (job and hobby).

VB was faster to catch I personally think.

Garrett: THANK YOU so MUCH for that Basic4Android! This is an incredible tool, finally I can start my project with this tool! I bought the enterprise license after 2 hours of trying the trial. There goes 99$ less to any VDS updates (joking.. none will appear anymore I am sure) Did not even know this was existing!

And the forums is packed with information, external libraries and more... wow. Again thank you!
So amazing how easy it is to test out an app with my android tablet.

VB.net for my windows and Basic4Android for my mobile stuff... now where to I start. Smile

Thanks to both of you... now I have to remind myself that I am in a VDS forum here

Wave
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Dave Heck
Valued Newbie


Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 34
Location: Union, CT USA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: The loss of VDS? Reply with quote

It is with great sadness that I read through these posts and discover the language I use on an almost daily basis is for all intents and purposes dead. While not surprised - I suspected that Version 6 would be the last since we had such difficulty getting it – this is still painful news….very painful.

I've used VDS for a long time and while I'm no whiz-kid at programming it has allowed me to write some pretty good programs - utilities to assist during OS conversions in our company, a custom Windows Start Up program that I first wrote many years ago (I think it was in V3), backup utilities (a front-end with a back-end being RoboCopy), etc.

I love the ability to quickly write a “concept” program to test some basic logic, one that I can then flesh out with a nice looking, easy to build and use GUI, lots of remarks, etc. later. This has made my job much easier and at times amazed my co-workers (and my manager which isn’t a bad thing <grin>).

I'll take a looked at the alternatives posted here (thanks to all for those) and will consider looking (again) at the more mainstream languages such as VB or C++. I find myself at a crossroads – I don’t need a lot of “fancy” features, but I’m afraid of jumping into another language that isn’t in widespread use. I’m not nearing retirement quite yet at some point my career will wind down and I’ll have to leave behind source code and programs for whomever my replacement is (thinking long term here).

I fear the loss of this forum at some point – I do visit on occasion like I did yesterday. While I hope it stays available forever I’d like to take the time here to thank everyone involved with VDS in the case that it does go away and I lose the opportunity,

To Julian Moss/JM-Tech, S.A.D.E s.a.r.l and Commercial Research - thank you for developing and producing the program.

To those who embraced VDS and wrote DLLs, APIs, etc. to enhance it, and those who participated in this forum – moderators, experts and us dumb newbies alike – thank you for your help and patience throughout the years.

And so, with a tear in my eye, I wish you all the best of luck and bid you all a fond farewell.

Dave

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PGWARE
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Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 1548

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no reason to shut down the forums Smile There's still people that come by and it costs virtually nothing to host.
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LiquidCode
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Joined: 05 Dec 2000
Posts: 1739
Location: Space and Time

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes please do keep the forum. I visit every day and I still find code that I can use from old posts. Even my own! I still us VDS every day and will continue to do so until it doesn't run on windows anymore.
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Chris
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Dave Heck
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Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 34
Location: Union, CT USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PGWARE wrote:
There is no reason to shut down the forums Smile There's still people that come by and it costs virtually nothing to host.


Thank you!!!

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Dave Heck
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Garrett
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't program much these days but I do still check in here almost daily to see if I can help anyone out.
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DavidR
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Joined: 05 Aug 2003
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Location: Hershey Pennsylvania U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm another faithful user of VDS
I'm not a programmer by profession but from time to time I need to whip up some utility really quickly.
VDS gives me the ability to do that without spending hours reading manuals or searching with Google to figure out some obscure function.
I have C++ that I use to modify existing source code but would be hard pressed to write anything from "scratch" using it.
The bottom line is that VDS satisfies 95% of my programming needs and until the day comes that it won't run on the computers in our industry I'll keep churning out programs.
I've looked at many of the other packages suggested here but in the current "lean" environment I simply don't have time for the learning curve.
Just my "2 cents" Confused
............David
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